July 2nd ~ Very few of us enjoy anything. We have very little joy in seeing the sunset, or the full moon, or a beautiful person, or a lovely tree, or a bird in flight, or a dance. We do not really enjoy anything. We look at it, we are superficially amused or excited by it, we have a sensation that we call joy. But enjoyment is something far deeper, which must be understood and gone into. . . .
As we grow older, though we want to enjoy things, the best has gone out of us; we want to enjoy other kinds of sensations–passions, lust , power, position. These are all the normal things of life, though they are superficial; they are not to be condemned, not to be justified, but to be understood and given their right place. If you condemn them as being worthless, as being sensational, stupid, or unspiritual, you destroy the whole process of living. . . .
To know joy one must go much deeper. Joy is not mere sensation. It requires extraordinary refinement of the mind, but not the refinement of the self that gathers more and more to itself. Such a self, such a man, can never understand this state of joy in which the enjoyer is not. One has to understand this extraordinary thing; otherwise, life becomes very small, petty, superficial–being born, learning a few things, suffering, bearing children, having responsibilities, earning money, having a little intellectual amusement and then to die.
January 4th, 2020 ~ This may not be related but here are some comments based on a Krishnamurti video I watched yesterday.
It discusses self-improvement. How can you improve on a self that isn’t there?
To become something requires time. To become non-violent if one is violent requires time. To be free of something, does it require time? To be free from violence, does this require time? Do you see the difference?
How: View this blog entry about how the Observer is the Quality.
Desire (or Summation of Will): Desire for the image in our brain about the object, but not the object itself.
e.g. Sex–general sexual desire without any object per se. ( if you really look closely)
Touch, See, Hear >>leads to>>>Contact>>leads to>>Sensation>>leads to>>Object & Thought to obtain it>>leads to>>“Desire”
When Thought identifies itself with Sensation and whatever it sees/touches/hears, Desire kicks in. Thought creates the image.
Can you have sensation, thus see>>>contact>>>sensation but without thought of the image and desire?
Can you have transformation with Desire? As mentioned above, you have an image of transformation but not transformation itself, so no, you can not have transformation with Desire. This is quite a profound statement!!!
Is there an outside agency that will help us? K says he is not an outside agency. I am not here to help you. Not rely on anybody. Someone asks K whether he is pointing out and K says look at yourself. Don’t be ridiculous. I have heard this argument before. When there is the desire to wake up, as in Zen, and someone says “Isn’t that another desire?” Ultimately, the work is to be done by oneself. It is a testament to how difficult this work is. K is pointing out, but lets be serious. We have to do the work and it is arduous. Can we see this? Maybe this is why K doesn’t talk to much about “How” to do this work. We have to figure this out.
Guilt–Image of not being who we are (Image in the Brain). But it is not the reality of it.
Other Ideas:
Image of who we are versus Image of what we think we are.
- With a desire to resolve it?
- To be free of guilt?
- How do you come to it?
- How do you approach a problem?
Can you approach a problem without any motive, desire, background knowledge?
Question:Why/How Krishnamurti makes the leap from “Seeing as a fact the Brain is Conditioned” to asking “Whether the Brain can be Un-Conditioned” to “Is the Observer separate/different from my Quality?”
This is Conditioning. How does Conditioning take place? Background knowledge, motive.
Understanding Desire–Could it be my not having a clear profession/partner as my professional and personal life began 30 years ago led me to question and research desire and motivation and now learning that understanding how desire works can lead to un-conditioning the brain? Could this challenge actually turn out to be a blessing or what Krishnamurti has called a “Jewel”? A rather un-pleasant jewel but it is still your jewel, he says, and that you are the center of all that. There is tremendous energy in our jewel. Everyone of us has our own jewel.
Now, is this related to the topic of the blog “One Must Go Deep to Know Joy?” As a dialogue member Raj pointed out, K is saying the same thing in his books, but maybe in different ways. Self, sensation and joy are key words here.